Daniel 'Snowy' Kinloch skateboards so well, that the good people over at Landscape make skateboards with his name on them- and pay him for it! He's also really good at listening to music, although nobody pays him to do that- he does that for fun. Everybody's always asking him about skateboarding, but nobody talks to him about music, so we thought we'd ask the Lancashire lad with the Madchester graphics what he's been putting in his ears recently.
What's your favourite video section track, and why?
I always loved Wiily Santos' part in the Birdhouse video Ravers, he had The Beatles 'Here Comes The Sun' running into 'Yellow Submarine'. It was was one of the first videos I had and one of the first parts I watched over and over. I don't know, it just had good vibes. I watched it a lot one cold northern winter, and it made me think of the sunshine...
But for hype Cardiel's section on (Transworld's) Sight Unseen with Sizzla, got it spot on with that!
What's your favourite video overall, for music, and why?
There's one video that above all just captured a time for me, and makes me smile every time I watch it. The Holy Bible of skate videos, Zoo York Mixtape forever ever be thy name, amen. "Big shout on the east coast!"
Is there a song you play in your head to get you hyped when you're trying something?
Always, but it changes constantly. I must have gone through thousands over the years. I'm not really someone who skates with an iPod so day-to-day it'll be the last good tune I heard that sticks in my head, or sometimes- embarrassingly- a bad pop song I hear on the radio while getting a drink from the shop.
Who's idea were the Happy Mondays and Stone Roses boards? How did they come about?
The Stones Roses have always been one of my favourite bands, and I ended up using 'Elephant Stone' in my Portraits part. The graphic was originally DJ's concept, the first in a series of 'one off' graphics for Landscape. We're both are big fans of John Squire's album artwork and we tried to keep it as true as possible to the original. It ended up being one of our best selling boards and we re-released it in silver. The Stone Roses re-released the special edition album, so it just seemed natural for us to release the limited edition gold version that was laser etched and numbered.
Again, the Happy Mondays have always been one of my favourite bands, I spent a few years growing up in Manchester and that era of music has always fascinated me. When we were finishing up filming for Horizons we were having problems finding a tune for my part but I always had one in mind- 'Kinky Afro'. I actually went travelling around South America straight after we finished filming for Horizons so missed the editing, premiere and what we were going to do for the next boards. I didn't even know what tune I was going to have so DJ designed it for me as a surprise. For me the best touch was the pair of Bez's maracas for the top graphic. Fucking legend!
What was the first album you bought with your own money?
Haha! The first album I ever bought with my own money was Micheal Jackson's 'Bad'. I remember this quite vividly, I was about five years old shopping in Asda with my mum and I think it was on a special. I thought he was the baddest back then, shame what happened really.
What are you listening to just now?
I'm always listening to a lot of different music, but at the moment I've been getting into quite a bit of old school house. Like rare old grooves. 808 State, Omar-S, Mr. Fingers, Inner City, House 2 House etc... There's quite a few of us down here that have been getting into it, and we have a legend friend, DJ John Night. His sets could make anyone love it!
What was your first gig? How was it?
I suppose my first real gig was Glastonbury Festival... My Mum used to work there in the early-to-mid 90s and so I used to go with her. Pretty surreal running around somewhere like that just becoming a teenager. It's a bit of a blur but I saw some wicked bands and some not so wicked. I wish I'd known then what I know now about music 'cause some real legends played back then and I didn't have a clue.
What gig in history do you wish you could have been at?
I'd always liked to have been been at Jimi Hendrix at Woodstock. Maybe more for the atmosphere and what was happening at the time.
Do you ever dabble in making music yourself?
No, not really. I've jammed with friends messing about but I don't think that counts. I wish I was more musical, I just need to pick up that geets...
What's the best gig you've been to?
Seen quite a few lately, and actually watched Wu-Tang twice this year, but without a doubt GZA/Genius, he played like a three hour set in this little venue in North London. Good people, good vibes and he absolutely merked it!
What's your favourite album art?
Ha! Well this is funny because I used to pore through my dads record collection when i was a wee laddie, and it was pretty vast and varied- Hawkwind, Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, The Cult, The Cure, Sade, Joy Division, Fleetwood Mac... But one that always stuck out in my mind Is Jean-Michel Jarre's 'Oxygene'. I don't know why, 'cause I don't even like the music, but something about it just stuck in my mind.
What was the last album you acquired?
The last album to physically cross my palms was an album I got as a Christmas present, and I'm afraid to say it wasn't very good. It was a Gorillaz album, bless my nan.
What band do you wish you could have been in?
Damn. There's a lot bands from a lot of different times. It would be one that pushed the boundaries of music as well as other areas. If you're gonna be in a band then you have to do it properly, like the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Happy Mondays, The Stone Roses etc, but I'd have to say right now probably Motorhead with Lemmy. But I'm pretty sure I'd have been dead within a week.
Who on Landscape has the best and worst taste in music?
We've all got a pretty varied taste in music and at the end of the day its personal preference. If I have to call it though, I'll say I've the worst and everyone else the best!
As Blueprint pro, father, husband and Nike SB team manager, Colin Kennedy keeps himself busy. He can put up with drunk people like a champ, is ridiculously down for skateboarding and has always got something interesting in his headphones. It seemed appropriate we should take the time to find out exactly what...
What's your favourite video overall, for music?
Easy. Video Days. Short video and completely to the point. Classic tracks - Coltrane, Black Flag, Dinosaur, Milk... They broke the mould on that one. However, it was Spike Jonze's magnum opus in skateboarding, so of course it was good.
Have you got a least favourite, not including the Rhythm video?
Easy, any recent video that chose to not licence music and just took the first thing they could get their hands out without licence and completely missed the point about what makes a skate video. If you're not a big company, take the risk on the music, it'll most probably be worth it.
Did the first skateboard videos you watched influence your listening preferences?
Absolutely. More often than not we would have dubs of skate video soundtracks direct to analogue cassette from the VHS copy, with the skate sounds included. This was my listening preference, but to come back to the question, it certainly guided me towards punk and hip-hop, because more often than not that was what was used on skate videos.
Is there a song you play in your head to get you hyped when you're trying something?
I don't try so many things anymore, but when I do the main thing my brain is doing is a basic risk assessment. Last time I can actually remember a track fully influencing a trick I was trying was actually at the Berrics. It was Slayer playing and I ended up cracking my canister on the floor. We turned the music off after that.
What's your favourite album of all time, and why?
This is impossible to answer but in a Desert Island Discs style, I'd like to proffer that Brian Eno's 'Another Green World' ticks a hell of a lot of boxes.
What's your earliest musical memory?
The Alan Parsons Project - 'The Turn Of A Friendly Card'. My Dad owned it and used to play it quite frequently and hence so did I, as I got a little older. So many recordings that are vivid memories to me from the past are synth-based or have some sort of electronic influence.
What was the first album you bought with your own money?
The Communards - 'Communards'. I think my sister convinced me to buy it as she had already spent her money on another record. It grew on me. The synth influence was always there and it has stayed with me.
What's your favourite album art?
Public Enemy - 'Yo! Bum Rush the Show'.
What are you listening to just now?
Lately, some of the Berghain techno, Marcel Dettman. Some of the podcasts at Resident Advisor, Martyn, Mike Huckaby. East Village Radio was a great tip off from Mackey. That's a completely random station from NYC so it's often nice to not make a choice and have a freeform listening session. Caribou's 'Swim' Album is still a favourite and is still on steady play.
Do you get to buy much stuff on tour?
All the time, but digitally. I rarely go into music shops and no longer have any nostalgia for physical formats; files are good for me for the time-being, and a lot easier to manage. I use the phone to download podcasts and music when I'm on the move, and it's still a trip to me that this technology is so readily available. Pick up a song over the air whilst at the airport? Beautiful and seamless technology.
What do you think about the composed-soundtrack thing for skate videos? Was the Mark Jackson stuff an early example of that?
It depends to what extent someone might take it to, and the context. More often than not the celebrated scored videos haven't got me too excited. I'm from the old school of thought on working the footage 'round a great song. Mark Jackson was a close associate of Blueprint so it was a natural progression to get him involved in things in the past, but I wouldn't say it was scoring akin to other such videos, like 'The End', for example.
Do you start getting a song in your head for a section when you're filming, or does that come after?
Not at all. Magee has always been a pessimist with a vision, concept and idea for a video but he would never be public about these decisions until the bulk of the footage was in the bag. You were filming up 'til you were about 70% of a part then you might be able to talk music. It was an ingrained mindset.
Blueprint has a really strong identity despite - unlike some other companies - being 'associated' with any type of music. How do you reckon this was achieved?
Dan's aspiration to just get it right and make the videos palatable and interesting. It was a cohesive vision but the brand is communicated through the diversity of the team riders. I think the team brought a lot of those influences to the plate, and we all travelled and spent a lot of time together filming those videos, so each of our tastes and influences would cross pollinate and naturally Dan picks up on those influences.
Anything coming out soon you're excited about?
I would say the new Shed album. I don't buy many full techno releases anymore but I have always picked up his long players as they seem to have that re-visitable album quality to them and a good palette of sounds and dynamics.
What was your first gig?
It would be hard to pinpoint the actual one. There was a time when there was a rash of gigs going through Glasgow and that was perhaps the most memorable time, more so than any particular gig. Fugazi, PE, Beastie Boys, Rollins Band. Stereotypical skate sounds of the time but dynamite gigs.
What gig in history do you wish you could have been at?
I really never thought I had this nostalgia in me until recently. I was watching the Stone Roses press release interview about their Heaton Park 'reunion' gigs next year and although I am a fan of the first album, their gigs were notoriously a shambles or complete pish, but it did get me to thinking there are so many great bands that I listen to now that are in most cases not together or around anymore. Such an example would be Sabbath at the height of their career.
What's the best gig you've been to?
House of Pain, Cypress Hill and Funkdoobiest at the Barrowlands in Glasgow. Not so much for the music but for the insane Glasgow crowd and the chaos and atmosphere in there. They have an expression in Scotland for this - 'the place wis jumpin'. Absolute dynamite, tension and noise.
Do you go to clubs?
Rarely, I would go more given the chance; but I love to if the music is to my liking. Just rare to find someone in my generation who's still down to go. I can still throw down to the early hours.
What's happening with the music you do just now?
It's in a perpetual state of flux in my computer. Same old same old. Nothing new there.
What's your favourite band/label t-shirt?
Always has to be the 'DK' Dead Kennedys logo. Classic.
What band do you wish you could have been in?
Iron Maiden, mainly for the tours. They have their own private passenger jet that Bruce Dickinson flies with the whole crew and stage set. Absolute insanity.
Anything you'd like to recommend?
To never disregard the importance of challenging and 'different' music. Without it, there is no music.
Peaking Lights are husband-and-wife duo Aaron Coyes and Indra Dunis, and their latest album, '936' is a gorgeous, immersive mixture of dub, psychedelic space rock, minimal house, Krautrock and pop. Previously released on LA's Not Not Fun label, it's recently had a worldwide release on Domino off-shoot Weird World. The pair were holed up in New York recording their next album when I phoned them to talk about synths, surfing and soul...
Peaking Lights. Photograph by Ben Poster
So you're both in New York just now?
I: Yeah, we're here recording just now, at Mexican Summer's recording studio. We're working on our next record. We're working with Al Carlson (producer who's worked with everyone from Oneohtrix Point Never to Lady Gaga). He's awesome.
A: He's actually here, he just rolled in with his bike helmet on.
How was the move from Not Not Fun to Weird World? They're distributed by Domino, so it must be a bit of a change.
A: Amazing. It was great!
I: Everybody's just been wonderful to work with. We're just really happy to be working with a label that can take our music to the wider masses.
And with that comes touring. How's that working out?
A: It's great. We did a lot of touring in the past, but we've just had a kid, so it's a little bit different from what we've done before. In how we're able to tour, I mean. We can't play shows unless we have someone to watch him, y'know?
I: At this point we can't really do huge tours. We're doing shorter tours, but as he gets older that'll change. We're still playing! Just a little bit less frequently.
You build a lot of your synths yourself, so is your sound borne of necessity? Or did you build these things to create the sound that you wanted?
A: It's definitely a little bit of both. How much is anything a necessity, except for food and water and air?
I: I think what Aaron's getting at is that- we couldn't afford to buy some crazy $30,000 vintage synth- but Aaron started building synths somewhat out of necessity to create cool sounds, and then it turned into sort of "Well, actually, these synths make really unique sounds that no one else is making!" So now it's become a really integral part of what we do.
With that being the case, do you worry about taking your equipment on tour? Do you worry about anything happening to it?
A: Yeah!
I: Yeah! Even travelling sometimes, the synths will get out of tune or something from being bumped around, so it's always a little bit of an issue. Even flying overseas. One of Aaron's synths is in a suitcase- it looks like a briefcase- and it's just got all these bare wires, and we're always afraid they're going to think it's a bomb or something...
Peaking Lights. Photograph by Ben Poster
Do you use any modern equipment? Any emulators or anything?
I: I just use regular synths. We use a right wide variety of stuff, from pretty cheap vintage Casios to Nord stuff, y'know? The stuff that Aaron uses, he runs through his own filters that he made. He kinda uses his own synths, mostly.
A: Yeah. My own stuff mostly. I guess it's just how we managed to write songs. Over the years it's just figuring out who plays what, and what's easiest. We're becoming a bit more focused with what we're doing. It used to be that we'd play with these massive stacks of...
I: Stuff.
A: Stuff. Home-made synths and the like.
I: It was a little ridiculous. It was stacks and stacks of stuff, and it'd take us forever to set up. We've streamlined it since! We've picked our favourite stuff so we can actually play live and not have it be insane!
A: We used to have to get to shows an hour and a half early because it would take so long to set up, man!
Indra, you're from a punk background, and Aaron, you're from a noise background. Do you think the DIY aesthetic- and the rawness- of these cultures have contributed to the sound of Peaking Lights?
A: It's definitely contributed. There's a lot of our past influences that have helped us develop with this.
I: I think life leads you to where you are. So what you've done in the past leads you to where you are in the present, y'know?
A lot of the press about Peaking Lights talks about the krautrock influence, but not so much about the dub side of it. Did you plan to have such a dub sound, or was that the product of your home-made synths?
A: It's something we definitely set out to do. It's a big influence to us, especially with the home-made synths. Dub definitely influenced me in building stuff like that, just being able to say "Fuck it, I can do whatever I want to do!" It's definitely a conscious decision to let that influence shine through.
You both listen to a lot of hip-hop too. Do you pay attention to the production methods in modern hip-hop?
I: Maybe subconsciously. Not in the way that we're looking for sounds, but it's something we both really like. It's not like we could ever be a hip-hop band.
A: Well, Indra might think that...
I: It just seems a little more possible to create a dub sound, and of course that's our own interpretation of it too. It's not like we're gonna sound like a Jamaican band, y'know?
A: We just look outside. We really listen to very little modern music. We really just listen to older music. Lots of reggae and dub, soul music, Latin, jazz, Afro. Even old techno and disco. We don't have a CD player, and I don't think either of us really listen to stuff on the internet.
Aaron, Mikko, Indra. Photograph by Ben Poster
How significant was your move to Wisconsin?
I: Well I'm from there, and Aaron's from California. We've lived in Wisconsin for four years but we did meet out in the Bay Area, because that's where we were living. I think it's been a good opportunity for us to just... focus on what we're doing. We lived in the country for a couple of years, we had this great house we were renting, we had a lot of space with not distractions. We created the music for fun, it was like an activity for us. It wasn't like we could go out and do much in the evenings so we would do stuff at home. Create music.
A: It definitely helped us focus, with the space. We were able to build a studio up more. There was time, so I was able to do a bit more circuit bending and building.
I: We actually ended up opening a store, in Madison, selling vintage clothes and records. It was called 'Good Style'. We just sold it this year, and it's doing really well, actually. We had a lot of in-stores and art and that kinda stuff. We tried to start a little cultural centre. But we're moving back to LA.
How come?
I: We both miss California a lot! The ocean, the weather... Wisconsin was really good for us- to focus and start what we're doing- but now that we've established that we're really missing the coast.
A: I miss the coast. Where I grew up, on the beach, I was pretty much surfing every day. For real man, I miss just being able to go surfing. I miss the ocean a lot. It's in my blood!
Aaron, I'm told you worked on a 'legendary soul project' in a record shop in Oakland. What was that?
A: Oh, that dig? I was working at Saturn Records in Oakland and we bought this collection. It was a couple hundred thousand pieces. It was from a warehouse that had been repossessed by the bank, and it was all these unplayed 45s that had, like, personal notes from all these people. One was from James Brown. It was like "Hey, my band's playing in Oakland, can you book my show for me?" Just stuff like that. My job was to catalogue the records, so I was just listening to stuff and pricing it.
Do you think that if you'd met each other ten years ago, and moved to Wisconsin then, you'd still be making the same music?Is there anything from the last ten years reflected in Peaking Lights?
I: Ten years ago I was just starting with that band Numbers, and I was in a different headspace. I was really into punk and post-punk music. I feel like Peaking Lights is a development for me. Maybe like something you can't really create until you're at a certain point in your life. I should say that Aaron and I played in a band called Rahdunes first, which was a kind of psych-noise Throbbing Gristle sort of band. That was a huge departure for me, from what I was doing in Numbers. It opened my mind to improvising, and playing such a different kind of music. I think that was the turning point for me.
There seem to be quite a few people stepping away from Noise music just now, and a lot of people are mellowing out- even Merzbow's toned it down. And of course it's now fashionable...
A: I think it's just changing. There are always gonna be people who are not gonna tone it down at all, and then there's people who just have an experimental mindset, who just want to try whatever is out there. For Merzbow to tone it down a notch, it makes total sense. When I think about it I'm like "Well, how the fuck did he get there in the first place?" And it was just by experimenting, and fucking around, y'know?
I: And you don't want to just play the same thing over and over either. You want to develop, and explore new sounds.
A: Our friends Wolf Eyes played in Madison recently and they were just so good. It felt like where they were at when I would see them in the late nineties. To me they still have this amazing energy, it's just a different tone. They're still developing, they're not stagnating.
What's the new Peaking Lights record going to be like?
A: It's probably a little bit of a step away. I: It's not going to be totally different, but it's definitely going to be a continuation, another chapter.A development!
Here's a mix Peaking Lights made. Keep up to date with their touring schedule, new material and remix album at their site. MIXXED-UP by Peaking Lights
OFF!- First Four EPs (Vice)
As close to Keith Morris-era Black Flag as you could reasonably hope for, 2011 brought the release of the first OFF! records. Featuring Keith himself (and former RFTC drummer Mario Rubalcaba) OFF! deliver with the short sharp brutality of primitive LA hardcore. There's plenty of referential humour intertwined beyond the title of this release - the band are also named after a flyspray and Raymond Pettibon is on graphic duties once again. The existence of OFF! voids the last 25 years worth of Black Flag indebted false punk.
Tom Waits- Bad As Me (Anti)
Dog-eared bar-room poetry from the 61 year-old, on his 17th album. As focused and game-changing as anything he's ever done.
Real Estate- Days (Domino)
Hopefully the dawn of a new C86 era, the shimmering delights of Real Estate have been delighting audiences over the world since their moved to indie-major Domino. Spotless pop-melancholy oozes from every groove of this, their second full length album.
Roedelius/Schneider- Stunden (Bureau B)
Piano-and-electronics post-ambient experimentalism, from one of the genre's founding fathers and a modern master. At once clever and playful, music for an open mind in an empty room.
Wolves in the Throne Room- Celestial Lineage (Southern Lord)
Transcendental, relentless black metal in the truest sense; the sound of a rain-drenched spectre looming on the edge of a foggy forest. Witness new constellations coalesce...
Zomby- Dedication (4AD)
Smart, synth-y soundsystem psychedelia. Post-everything piano electronics for the discerning rudeboy.
Vittorio Mazzoni - Geografia Della Campania (Not on label)
The soundtrack to a vintage future of disjointed voices, lost guitars and haunted dub. Vintage modernism on cassette.
Git- Imagination (BBE)
Party in your head to the Pete Rock flavoured Bay-Area hip-hop like it's 1995.
Peaking Lights- 936 (Weird World)
Psychedelic kosmiche-dub with other-worldly analogue electronics, but pop.
Gang Gang Dance- Eye Contact (4AD)
New York art-dance-pop of the most fun and experimental kind. A necessary, modernist advancement of dance music.
The release of the eleventh Tarwater album, 'Inside The Ships', finds the Berlin duo drawing reference from 1950s sci-fi, kraut-minimalism and experimental cinema; even eliciting the atypical circumstance of a film being made around their album- rather than the other way around. While the voice, effected guitar and analogue electronics of Ronald Lippok (also of To Rococo Rot) and Bernd Jestram seem rooted in an entirely post-modern space-age, it is inevitabley borne of their country's kosmiche heritage, flickering B-movies and their 1990s 'post-rock' contemporaries. Inevitable comparisons to Tortoise, Sonic Youth, Neu! and Stereolab abound, yet Tarwater are time-served alumni of this school, and continue to explore the furthest reaches of their (Forbidden) planet of sound. Their new record is clear testament to this, so I thought I should ask them a bit about it. This interview took place when they played the 'Eastern Promise' festival, at Platform, in Glasgow's Easterhouse.
Tarwater. Photograph by Christoph Voy
The album, Inside The Ships, took two years to finish. What happened during those two years?
R: We were working on stuff like film music, theatre, and radio plays and so on. When we started doing the album in the beginning we didn't have any idea. A friend of ours was working on a space opera- a science fiction space opera- and that was the kind of initial inspiration for the album. We thought that was interesting, and we started listening to space rock, to the Ladbroke Grove scene, and to old science fiction music from the GDR- East German science fiction film music. Actually, it was meant to be a space opera radio play. That was the initial inspiration for the album.
How much of the two years was writing, how much was recording, how much was mastering?
B: Because I'm running the studio, it's always one process. We don't compose at the beginning... We just say "Today is a Tarwater day, let's record something", and we start from zero.
R: We start to do something, and it's not very strategic. We don't write songs in the classic way where you start with an instrument- it always starts with sound, soundscapes... that's the best way for something to happen. When you never know.
The album has inspired a short film. Tell me about that.
R: There was a guy who said to us "Let's do it the other way around. Don't write music for the movie, give me the music first and I'll do the movie". We wanted to see how the video developed, based on the tracks. It's not like a video clip really, it's longer- it's 35 minutes- and it's based on Tarwater tracks. It was good doing it the other way around, because when you work on film music normally, you do the music when you have the pictures and this time it was the other way around.
B: We were recording and making the album at the time, so he got tracks that we didn't put on the record.
Tracks that were meant for the record?
R: Tracks that died!
What did you think of the film?
R: I really liked it it. It was done on Alexanderplatz in the centre of Berlin. Since we were children we've known this place, but looking at the movie we didn't know it was made on Alexanderplatz. It was interesting seeing a place that we're so familiar with, and not noticing it. Imagine going to the most famous spot in Glasgow, and you shoot a movie, and people don't know where it is...
B: It was shot at nighttime, just using the light that was coming from the surroundings.
R: They didn't bring any extra lights, it was just the lights that were there.
So if this guy approached you while you were making the album, did it change the way the album was created?
R: Hmm. Good question. Actually, I don't think so. Working on the album was taking quite a while, for us, because albums have their own needs. It's like when you try to attract an animal, and you go "Come! Come! Come!", we were waiting for the songs to come. To come together. We'd think one was good, then we'd think one was fantastic, but the album had no 'face'. Then when it started to come together, then we thought "OK, let's tour, we've got an album". Recording an album should be a microcosm. It doesn't necessarily have to be a concept album, but you should be able to listen to the whole album and see that this is a little world in itself. You never know when this is going to happen.
The press release for the album says that it definitely isn't a concept album.
R: (Laughs) I know... Science fiction was just an inspiration, but if you listen to the tracks there is a certain theme. Like 'Radio War' is about Orson Welles and the whole story about his radio play (War Of The Worlds) when everybody went nuts about the martians coming to Earth, and how at the time there was this big fear of communism. 'Do The Oz' is like a science fiction dance- "Put your left wing in, take your left wing out"- even though it was inspired by Oz magazine, because Oz was going to stop, and we wanted to support this underground magazine. Science fiction was an inspiration, but I think a concept album has to have a weird story going through it.
Like a Soft Machine album.
R: We love Soft Machine.Soft Machine was one of the inspirations for the album. We did a DJ mix for (excellent music website) The Quietus that you should check out. It's a one-hour mix of science fiction music.
Were you watching a lot of films when you were making the album?
R: Science fiction was always interesting to us, but we were watching a lot of Russian films at the time. We weren't doing 'research', science fiction is always around, it's to do with our lives. It's not like fantasy that puts you someplace completely else, with science fiction you still have a connection.
The science fiction that comes to mind when I listen to the new record is the science fiction of the 1950s and 60s. Stuff that was set in the year 2000. It's this vintage future that never existed.
R: That's a good way of putting it. When I was a child I expected to be living underwater by the age I am now. When you listen to 'Forbidden Planet', it's a very interesting soundtrack, made electronically. When you listen to a science fiction movie from now it's very boring. It's just standard. In the olden days they thought "OK, how could music sound in the future?" That was far more interesting than what science fiction music is now. I think it's a pity that people don't try harder now.
People like Delia Derbyshire, and the BBC Radiophonic Workshop, who did the Doctor Who music, don't exist anymore.
R: Doctor Who is a very good example. That's fantastic, frightening music. With science fiction there's so much more in the 50s, 60s and 70s than there is now.
Is there any music out just now that you like?
R: I really like the last Kreidler album. I'm not saying that because we're on the same label. I really appreciate that a band like that can make a statement with a record like that. Is there any other stuff?
B: I quite like the new Wire record! I've listened to it several times now, and I like the songwriting, and the singing. I was really impressed. I've been a Wire fan for so long, but the new one just made me say "Wow!"
How has the Tarwater sound developed over the years?The first album was quite beats-based, but do you think your music has begun to merge with the soundtrack work you do?
R: It's hard for us to say. I never listen to the old albums, unless I'm really drunk. Although I was listening to an old track today, for the show, and it sounded quite different to the version we play live. If you work for a long time things will change. With 'Dwellers On The Threshold', we had an interest in folk music. Like psychedelic folk, and soul. I think that changed the sound in a way. But we have always worked in Berlin. We've never worked in, let's say, the countryside. We're always in town, and we're out listening to DJ sets. We're always surrounded by people doing stuff that has an impact on our music. It's not very strategic. We don't go "The next record should be more song-based, or have less guitar" or anything.
Each album seems like a new sound.
R: I like that some people only know the new album, and some people only know the old albums. Some people will only like the albums from the mid 90s, with the singing and electronics. This curious mixture of sound and song. It's hard to say as a band. We don't ever plan anything. For our career that might not be good, but that's the way it is.
Are you touring the new album in a big way?
R: Tonight, we're playing the songs for the first time. It's a special night- it's an adventure! We've been rehearsing at our studio, but we don't know what they sound like through a sound system.
When you're writing a song, do you think about how it'll sound live?
B: No, never. When we're in the studio we just record what we like. We never think about live. So later on we sometimes have massive problems. Like, "How can we play this song, it's not possible".
R: Or we'll have something that we just can't repeat, from an old Korg or something.
B: We can't play all the instruments with just two people.
R: Playing live is like a parallel process to doing the album. We have to think "OK, what can we play live? How can we translate this?" And then we find out.
Now signed to the mighty Domino label, New Jersey's Real Estate have just released their second album, and what a beautiful piece of shimmering, melodic, lo-fi indie pop it is. Drawing comparison to Felt and Television, the Strokes and The Stone Roses; they owe as much to the UK's C86 sound as they do to New York new wave. With greatness and mainstream success beckoning them forth, we caught up with frontman Martin Courtney for an interview as he prepared to take the band on a world tour.
Real Estate. Alex Bleeker, Matt Mondanile and Martin Courtney. Photograph by Shawn Brackbill
So you've just signed a worldwide deal with Domino. How's that working out for you?
I guess it's been a really big change, but it's nice- everybody's really cool. I guess it was kind of a goal of ours to be on a bigger label. The different thing with Domino is that it feels like we now have a career or something! There's like a team of people there to help you out with stuff. They're just excellent. For us to just be doing what we're doing, it's great.
Was the new record recorded with Domino in mind? Even subconsciously?
We'd already decided we wanted to go with them when we started recording, and to be honest, we wouldn't have been able to record in a studio if we didn't know we were going to be getting some money from a label. We didn't actually announce that we'd signed to Domino until a couple months after we did sign. We just wanted to have the record done. We started talking to them about November- pretty much a year ago.
Had you already started writing when you were speaking to them?
Yes. The album was about half-way done. We'd been touring so much over the last couple years that we didn't really have time for writing. We did a tour with Deerhunter which finished in early November, then we just spent three months writing the album, and February was when we started recording. I spent January waking up every day and trying to record a demo or something, like it was my job, which was pretty cool.
What's the difference between the Real Estate that recorded the self-titled debut, and the Real Estate that made this new album?
We definitely have more of an identity formed as a band. Some of the songs on the first album were recorded before Real Estate was even a band. The first record was much less of a group effort, more like just trying to get some songs down. Almost like demos, y'know? And then we sort of coalesced into a four-piece rock group, and we toured a bunch. Right before we recorded this album we lost a member. We recorded this album as a three-piece, without a solid drummer. I played drums on some of it, Matt played drums on some of it and our friend Sam who plays in Big Troubles played drums. He was just helping out, so we didn't even know who was going to be our drummer live.
Yeah, I've heard you described as a 'jam band'. To what extent is that true?
I guess we like to 'jam', extend sections of our songs, or have them not be as planned out as maybe some bands. Our songs aren't always the same length! But it's only certain songs where we do that. With some songs we can be "We're gonna play this section for a long time" and maybe just improvise a little, but it's mostly because I really like repetition. I really like playing something over and over again until it becomes sort of hypnotic. On the new album we do that on the last song. It's a seven minute song, and the last four minutes are just the same thing over and over again. It's kind of like a Krautrock kinda thing.
Metronomic.
Yeah, I guess as part of our identity as a band we always did that. That's what people latch on to and call a 'jam band' I think. Our bassist is like a closeted hippy. He likes to go and see Phish and stuff, so he's actually into jam bands. And we all the the Grateful Dead.
What were you listening to when you were putting the record together?
When we were making the record we were listening to a ton of Television. Television has always been a favourite of ours, and Felt was one we were listening to a lot.
If you're on Domino you're going to be obliged to listen to Felt.
Yeah! Definitely.This thing Cleaners From Venus was one that we listened to a lot.
Who? Spring Cleaners From Venus? No, no- Cleaners From Venus. They're great. I feel like Guided By Voices listened to Cleaners From Venus a lot. Robert Pollard probably listened to them a lot. His voice sounds like this guy. They're cool. They're this home-recorded thing from the eighties. And we were listening to The Strokes a lot. It's funny, I was kinda reminiscing about high school. I dunno if that came through in the music, but we were going through this weird obsession with The Strokes. But I don't think you can hear it. Hopefully not (laughs). Stuff like Cass McCombs too...
Who's on Domino too.
Yeah, sure. That's what was funny about talking to Domino, they put out so much music that we really like. We were talking to a couple other labels too, but we thought how great it'd be to be associated with these acts that we love! Now that we're on the label I'm listening to all this other music they put out that I'd never heard before. Like Robert Wyatt. The re-issued all his older stuff, it's great!
His new stuff's good too.
Yeah, I don't think I've actually heard any of his newer stuff. I've only really been listening to 'Rock Bottom' and 'Ruth Is Stranger Than Richard'. But yeah, anyway- I'd say that probably the two biggest things for us was Television and Felt. Not that we were trying to sound like anything. With Television- we're a totally different band- but I do idealise the way that their arrangements were so melodic. Everybody's playing something different but it all fits together so well, and it's so rhythmic.
Real Estate. Photograph by Shawn Brackbill.
Your first album was extremely well received. Did that put pressure on you, or do you think that helped?
There was definitely a little bit of pressure. It was a different experience. Recording the first record, I wasn't expecting that anybody would hear it. That was definitely in the back of my mind. I tried to not let that ruin it for me, but it was definitely there. The fact that the first record was so well received almost made it easy for us. It's not like we didn't try with the first record but it, it wasn't like it was hard to make and people really liked it, so I was like "Well, if people liked that..." All I can hear is mistakes when I listen to it, but if people really liked that they're gonna love this one. When I listen to the new album I feel really good about it, so I'm not too worried I guess.
The track 'Out Of Tune', which was a single last year, is on the new album.Did you not want people to miss that one?
That's the only track on the record that wasn't done at the same time as all the other ones, and it's the only one that still has our old drummer on it. We thought about redoing it, but it was really hard to get someone to replicate his drum track. That drum track was like his crowning glory, and we can't figure out what he was doing there. We can't replicate it, and the recording sounded really good. I don't like to re-use songs, but everybody around us said we should put it on the record, because not enough people heard it. It was really just released as a seven inch, and it never came out outside the US. And I like it.
The album's coming out on CD, LP and cassette. Did you have a format in mind when you were making it?
We were always recording with vinyl in mind. And CD obviously too, but we were sequencing it for vinyl, because of course you can only fit a certain amount on a side of vinyl. We toyed with the idea of doing a double LP...
A bold move for your second album.
Yeah, yeah, so I was like "I guess we can't do that!"
The Stone Roses did it!
Haha, yeah. But it would've been a stretch! But with the cassette, we were excited about it. It wasn't really our idea, it was kinda Domino's idea. It's obviously gonna be a bit more limited, I think they're only gonna do 500. I doubt more than 500 people are gonna buy the cassette, but I know a lot of people who still listen to cassettes in their cars or fetishise it or whatever.
Your guitarist player Matt will be known to a lot of people through his Ducktails releases. Did his work there inhibit the making of the album at all?
I guess in a way... When we were mixing the record he had to go on tour. He couldn't be around for certain things that maybe he would have wanted to be around for. When we got the record mastered, he had just come back from tour. We went to this really nice mastering studio in Manhattan. The guy who mastered our record mastered Marquee Moon, and he did Born To Run. He had a note from John Lennon, because he mastered Walls and Bridges. This handwritten note from John Lennon with his phone number on it.
How did you get hooked up with this guy?
Our producer knew him. He did the new Titus Andronicus album, which our producer did, and he did the new Kurt Vile record. He does indie stuff as well, y'know? But they're this big famous mastering studio called Sterling Sound. His name's Greg Calbi. He did some amazing stuff. But yeah, Matt couldn't be around for that, and he wishes he could have been. But we factor it into the band. We schedule it, almost. Like we know when for the next couple of months Real Estate is going to have to be a focus. Like now we have to tour, but Matt's working on an album now, so that'll probably come out when we take a break from touring. Maybe when he's doing that I'll have time to write material for the next record.
Do you find yourself drawn to a certain an era of music? A certain time and a place?
Not really. I dunno. Yeah, late sixties, early seventies music... I mean I love Television but I don't necessarily love...
Patti Smith?
Yeah. Or like the New York Dolls or something. It's not like I'm obsessed with that area of New York music. I went to school in Olympia, Washington, and I was really excited to go there- although it wasn't the reason- because I knew that in the late eighties, early nineties, it was this really great place for indie rock. Like K Records and all that stuff. But pretty soon after I got there I realised that that's not what it's like anymore, it's just like any other college town. Except you seen Calvin Johnson around now and again. I don't find myself drawn to a particular time or place. I just like the music I like. I think that's probably the same with most people.
Your press release described New Jersey as one of America's "less cool states". What do you think of that?
It gets a lot of shit from people in New York. People in New York like to pretend they grew up in New York, even thought they're probably from Ohio or something. New Jersey is close to New York, but it's not New York. It's like the suburbs, so it's not as cool. There's a lot of industry there, so it's ugly. The highway, the I95, runs through New Jersey and it runs through this industrial part that just smells bad, 'cause there's all these oil refineries there. There's this huge swamp there called the Meadowlands that they've never been able to build on, and it releases this natural gas into the air, and it just smells bad. It smells like farts. People just get this bad impression when they drive through New Jersey. But there's some funny people that come from there. Like the whole Jersey Shore thing. Those people do exist, but it's a very small aspect of what New Jersey is. We were lucky where we were, because we were able to go to New York for shows and stuff.
Was there a show you saw that stands out? Anything you look back on that meant a lot to you?
There's a lot of them... I saw Television, which was kind of amazing. They reunited for a couple of shows, and I saw them when I was 17, which was kinda cool. I was even thinking recently, "Did I imagine that? Did that happen?" but it did! It got really bad reviews, but I remember it being incredible. If anything it's probably that we saw so many shows. I saw Built To Spill three or four times, I saw Yo La Tengo a bunch, we saw the Pixies when they got back together, but we became aware of this other scene in Brooklyn, all these loft shows that this guy Todd P put on. He's this DIY promoter guy who's put on shows for years. He really helped us early on in our time as a band. He booked us for a lot of shows. I think if you grow up in a place where you're not really exposed to a lot of live music you don't really think of it as a reality, or as an achievable goal.
What are your plans for the band in the next while?
We're doing a lot of touring. We're coming to the UK. We'll be touring all of November and a little bit of December. I'm writing some songs right now, and we're planning on doing an EP when we get home. I really want to get back in the studio and try to fire off a couple more songs.
The electronic pioneer Hans-Joachim Roedelius is a legendary figure in modern music. He founded the seminal bands Kluster (who later became Cluster, and now Qluster) and Harmonia (where he worked with a young Brian Eno), and he made music using the world's first drum machine- Drummer One. His work is considered across the world to be the blueprint for electronic music. He turns 77 this month, and rarely gives interviews, but Bite My Wire managed to trace him to his house in Austria for our conversation. He's just released his collaboration album with Stefan Schneider (of post-rock pioneers Kreidler and To Rococo Rot) and it's one of the most beautiful things you will ever hear.
Hans-Joachim Roedelius.
How did you meet Stefan? How did the collaboration come about?
I met Stefan a long time ago, when I was playing somewhere. He invited me to one of his concert series in Düsseldorf, and that was the first time we played together. Now that's four years ago, I think. When we did these concerts we said "Let's do a record, and let's try something else". We needed about one-and-a-half years to get this thing on tape.
Did you have any idea how you wanted 'Stunden' to sound when you started working on it?
I had no idea which way it would work, so it was very surprising how it came out in the end. The rhythms came out really nice, because of what Stefan Schneider did to it. I'm more the abstract, melodic part of it.
Stefan Schneider and Roedelius. Photograph by Fabian Schulz
You've always done a lot of collaborations. Do you find yourself to be more productive in the company of strangers?
I think it gives a lot of new ideas, it enriches my own work and my own type of working. It's a challenge, especially to work with people who are almost half my age. It's a good challenge for me because I don't want to fall asleep whilst I'm still on Earth. I'm 77 now, and it's good refreshment, this well of youth. It's good to get together with young people and work with them. It's only young people I'm working with at the moment- the youngest is a girl from Pakistan. She's living in Croatia, and is a bass player and a computer specialist. She's 30. Onnen Bock, who I'm working with in Qluster is in his 40s... I think I'm only working with the younger generation!
Your music has appealed to people for over 40 years, without you ever having to try, and without changing your sound. Why do you think this is?
When it's a collaboration, it's always about friendship. I think that's the main ingredient- my love to work with other people. Sharing the same values is basic, for being able to collaborate with people. With Moebius, it was 40 years we were working because we were good friends, but we stopped at a good time- because we ran out of ideas. Especially with the live stuff. It was like we were always doing the same thing. People appreciated it- and they loved it- and it didn't get boring, but I think it was a good idea that we split after the last work. It was a good swansong for a group that existed for 40 years.
So how important is playing live to you? Has the way that you present your music changed over the years?
After I found out that music is my thing to do, it was of great interest to me to work live. It's a different quality from studio work. Playing live in front of the public- who expect to be entertained- they can get into it, get something conscious from it, find themselves in it... find their own reality in it.
Cluster. Photographer unknown.
What inspired you to start making music?
I had a different approach, I was never bound by music theory. I always wanted to practice, I wanted to find out how I could express myself and my values in life, my being in life, musically. That was the main thing. Since the beginning I just wanted to express myself via music or via text, because I am writing as well, you know?
Of course.So how would you describe your music to somebody?
It's more or less philosophy in sound, or a cinema in sound, what I'm doing. But I'm always telling people, "Don't look at it as if it was music, in the general meaning, it's something else". It's something else. It's like writing a diary. Every piece is a part of a diary of my life, and it's a joy to do it. It's the way I have to work- to express my respect of nature, of creation, of whatever you call it. To give back what I'm getting. It's a gift what I'm getting. If it comes, then I'm doing it. I don't go "Oh, now I have to do a piece of music that is ten minutes long, to express this", if it happens it happens, and then there's a piece. And then I have to find the right name for it, which is the second creative process, to explain what I am thinking of that piece to make it easier for people, perhaps. But a piece of art speaks for itself. If you listen to my music you don't need an explanation about why I did it or what for. If it's ready, it's something that has a certain value.
It's said that before the artist paints in the abstract, he must master fine art. What do you think?
I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I think it's up to the individual. People like me, who had a different profession before... I was a physiotherapist and masseur, so I got together for a long time- for about ten years- with many, many, many people and I touched a lot of bodies and listened to a lot of voices. That was a totally different way of approaching life and of approaching art, and that made a big difference. People who really want to study an instrument, and study music, it's a totally different method. I'm privileged to be able to express how I feel, and my existence, and so called 'reality', and I'm happy to do what I'm doing. Especially because I can really do what I want to do. There are many people who aren't able to do that, because they are not allowed, or they don't allow themselves.
Cluster. Photographer unknown.
When you started making music, the technology you used was new. Now that pretty much everybody is able to make music at home on their computer, how do you think music has changed?
I really had to practice, to find out which sort of sound, which sort of tone, which sort of complex composition would fit my ears first so I could allow the piece to get out to other ears. It was not a problem that we couldn't use the machinery. We started with really simple stuff, and I think that's a good way to practice music. If you learn about noise, if you learn about tones and structures by just trying to find out if it fits your ears. Something different from learning an instrument or being able to read scores or write scores, which wasn't what we did when we were starting, and it isn't how I work now.
With technology, it's nice that it's easier to transport the microKORG (analogue modeling synthesizer), and to transport material to make noises, than it was in the past. It's good that it's easy to compose on a computer, but I'm not really doing it. I'm still very analogue in my mind, and analogue in my whole existence, so I just use what I'm able to. Little instruments. Presets in keyboards, and piano now of course, because my main interest is in piano sounds.
You don't compose on a computer at all?
With Stefan, we composed on a computer. He took everything we did here in my studio on to his computer, and he produced everything on his computer. He brought it to me and we listened to it together before we agreed to release it. When I'm playing my piano I put the digital recorder on, and I put it on digital tape, and if I like it afterwards I'll possibly put it on my computer. I have a very easy computer program, it's called 'Reaper'. I'm not even able to use a computer with eight, or ten, or even 24 tracks. I always have friends who can help me to do it!
Stefan in this case.
Stefan in this case, and Onnen Bock in Qluster. These guys are really able to handle the material. Onnen Bock really is a genius in every field he works. I'm very happy to have him as a colleague in Qluster!
You've put out a tremendous amount of work in the 21st century. What's inspired you to be so busy over the last ten years?
I have to take care of a big family! I have three kids, and two grandchildren. I'm hoping I am taking care of the house. My wife is a teacher so she gets regular money. I'm promoting, and taking care of my career myself. It's not a long time ago that I got an agent, in Berlin, who takes care of my concerts. My day is full of work. I'm cooking for when my wife is coming home. It's all part of my art, because my life is not divided into an 'art part' and a 'living part', it's all together.
Hans-Joachim Roedelius. Photograph by Camillo Roedelius.
Do your children, and your grandchildren, listen to the music you do?
My children love what I'm doing. All three, and my grandchildren- the oldest is 11 and he likes very much what I'm doing! He's sometimes in my studio, playing piano and trying to find out if he ought to want to be a musician. But that's not decided yet. He has to learn. He has to go to college. I think because I'm so in love with my art, everybody around me is infected by it!
Are you impressed by any modern music?
The only time I have to listen to music is when I'm driving my car for some distance, and I'm listening to the radio. But I'm not listening on purpose to modern compositions, I have no time. I have masses of CDs to listen to listen to but I can't do it because there is no time to do it.
With digital distribution and file-sharing, all music is now available to everybody. Is this the end of an era or the beginning of a new one?
It's very nice that every bit of music that's been done in the world is available online, so people can make a picture for themselves of what's going on in the world of music, or in the world of art. For me, online distribution is good because now it's feeding me! Just a few years ago it started that I get some money for my work. If my wife hadn't been there I would never have done such a lot of work, such a lot of recording. She allowed me to do it. Also, in Austria I'm privileged to get support from the state, and by many institutions, so if they wouldn't have helped me I wouldn't have done it. All gifts. When I came to Austria in '78 the institutions and people enabled me to work easily and freely, and with restriction. I could do what I wanted to do.
How did Harmonia come about? What was it like being in two groups at the same time?
Michael (Rother) came to us when Cluster had been five years on the road, and we settled down in the middle of Germany. I think he was a little bit bored with the work with Klaus Dinger in Neu!, so he tried to find a new situation, a new feel to work with, so he found us. Because we liked him and we liked his guitar playing we said "OK, let's try a second project beside Cluster". And it worked out.
Did he come to you wanting to join Cluster?
He came to join Cluster. I think the idea- which we didn't know about at the beginning- was to create a kind of 'supergroup'- Neu! and Cluster, under a different name, but it just didn't work out. So he stayed with us, and Dinger stayed in Düsseldorf and created La Düsseldorf instead of continuing working further with Michael Rother and Neu! So we tried to do a different thing with Harmonia, being influenced by Rother's guitar playing and by Rother's ideas about how to create music. We thought it could be a little bit more successful, because Cluster at that time was not very well known. It was well known, but not very successful money-wise. So we tried, and in the beginning it was fun to do it, but we couldn't really afford to rehearse the same piece of music every day, so we left it. It was not our aim to re-do the same stuff every time, all day long, so we left Harmonia after two albums. We had a last shot with Brian (Eno) when he came to our place to work with us. So we had three albums. The last one was 'Harmonia '76' with Brian. We did this when Harmonia had already split, but we still didn't get together anymore afterwards. This came out twenty years later, or so.
With Cluster we continued to work, and everybody did his solo stuff. There was a lot of solo stuff. I'm really glad that Bureau B is re-releasing so much. They're doing good, good work.
They're a fantastic label.
They're fantastic, and it's so noble. The quality of what they're doing is just perfect.
Do you think Brian Eno took a lot of your ideas when he went solo, or were these ideas that he already had?
Brian sent Cluster into the spotlight. He came because he loved what we did before, and he wanted to support us, in a way. And that's what he did with 'Cluster & Eno' and 'After The Heat'... It kept us alive for the next five years, the success of these two albums. Brian was more or less an ambassador for art, and he came to us to give us advice about how to work, and about how to get deeper into what we did. Not to be produced, just to do our thing. He still supports us in many ways. He wrote the foreword for the book, he wrote forewords for my new records, we've just been interviewed by him in London for a little festival in Austria. So he's still on our side because he's a big fan, and he's a good friend of ours.
Anything you think the readers of Bite My Wire should know?
Well, first of all, that Bureau B is doing splendid work. Not even just the re-releases, but all the new stuff they put on the market, like the 'Stunden' record. And they're taking care of the legacy of Conrad Schnitzler (contributor to Kluster and Kraftwerk who died in August). They're bringing out some music we did after the band split, and they're bringing out the first three Kluster records, which I'm very happy about. Please say hello to Brian Eno (laughs)! I've been invited to play Moogfest in Asheville at the end of October, in the states. I'm playing there as a soloist as with Tim Storey as party of the Lunzproject. So I'll see Brian there. Say hello to everybody in Britain. I hope I can come there again soon. I played a solo show at the Vortex Club in May and it was very nice. People liked it a lot.
